If you have ever wanted to be more prepared in an emergency, CERT is for you. Classes begin this Thursday, January 22, at 6:30 pm at the chapel in SunCrest. Contact Barbara Blackmer for more information at barbarablackmer@comcast.net.
I don't appreciate meetings, classes and all other things open to the public being held at the LDS church. I don't think it's appropriate. Some of us do not feel comfortable going to the LDS churches for events and so those of us who would go - don't. I think it would be better to have public events held in libraries, city halls, community centers etc.
M-I can certainly understand your concern, and if there were a community center available that is where the clas would have been held. From my understanding, many SunCrest residents have been asking for a CERT class in our community and the church was the only place available. They graciously agreed to alow the CERT classes to be taught there. If you are really interested in the CERT class, feel free to e-mail me at delainatonks@comcast.net and I can find some info on classes taught in other venues down in the valley.
The LDS church should not be considered a venue for these types of meetings. I don't see it going over well with LDS people if the classes and meetings were scheduled in a Catholic church, a Muslim masque or a Jewish temple. Just because there is an LDS church on every corner does not mean they should be venues for public meetings/classes/trainings/etc.
M-Again, I understand your concerns, and there are CERT classes available for you down in the valley. Nobody is trying to force you into an LDS church to attend a class on Emergency Prep. It's an available opportunity which you can take or leave. Many others were excited about having this class in SunCrest at the only available place large enough to accommodate the class. If you have a big basement and would be willing to host the class, let me know and we can get something on the schedule.
Many churches of every religion offer their buildings for community classes-I have attended events at Juan Diego, a Catholic church/high school for example.
But, let's reframe this discussion because it really has nothing to do with religion. It's about the convenience of taking a class around the corner instead of having to drive for 20 minutes to get to it.
M - In our vicinity, what do you think would be a better solution? Maybe we could hold it in one of our little parks in the snow and cold, or maybe we could pitch a big tent on one of the cul de sacs.
I'm not LDS either, but I appreciate the effort others have initiated to organize this class. I don't think I'm going to attract much attention walking into a church, and as DeLaina said above, no one is forcing me. You can either learn or not learn and if you are willing to drive further there are other classes available.
Many people in SunCrest (and not all are LDS) donate their time so that you and this community can be educated and informed. Please respect the fact that they have organized this event with emergency preparedness as the goal - not to convert you to Mormonism.
I'd like to speak to this issue, because I am the one who organized this CERT class. As Emergency Volunteer Coordinator for Draper City, I organize most of the CERT classes in the city. After scheduling classes in other parts of the city, I was happy to finally be able to offer CERT in my own community. I hope no one in Draper is "uncomfortable" with my organizing CERT classes because I happen to live in SunCrest! Originally, the class was supposed to be taught at the fire station. When that wasn't completed in time, we went to the only other possible venue. CERT classes teach a lot of hands-on skills, and require a large space. None of our attendees at last night's class seemed uncomfortable with the location, and (with the exception of a few personal friends who were there) I have NO IDEA what religions were represented. Incidentally, I took my training at Juan Diego Catholic High School and am grateful to them for so generously offering the opportunity and the space. If you contact me personally, I can steer you to other CERT classes offered throughout the valley, and work with you to find a more comfortable venue. Or, visit www.unifiedfire.org and check out the opportunities yourself. Thank you for expressing an interest in taking CERT; people who are so trained offer a profound service to their community.
I think all M is getting at is that the turn out for the CERT classes by non-LDS will be lower because of the location it is held. Just like it would be lower if it were held at the church of scincetolgy. People are just looking for a location that is Neutral.
I appreciate there being CERT classes in other locations - I understand that perfectly. But what if these meetings are Suncrest specific? If it's MY community meeting with MY neighborhood news/events and MY issues - I do not want them to be held at the corner LDS church.
Forgive me if it sounds a little strange but consider this: If the only big/close-enough/perfect venue in the area was a local pub would some people feel uncomfortable using a bar as a meeting venue? Of course! What if we scheduled these classes on a Sunday? Would some people feel it inappropriate? Of course! Perhaps we should tell those who object that they can just join a different community meeting elsewhere if they don't like it. In the same way, it's not fair for someone to tell me that while my neighborhood will hold a meeting where MY neighborhood issues will be discussed I'm welcome to go elsewhere.
On another hand, we are allowing these exercise classes, community meetings and so on to take place in the church. Does this mean all community events can take place in the church? What if the Suncrest Neighborhood Wine Tasting Club wants to hold their meeting/wine tastings at the LDS church because it's the only closest big venue around? No one's basement is big enough. I'm guessing that we wouldn't have a gracious invitation to do so.
The LDS church is not a fair and "neutral" location. It has nothing to do with Mormonism at all. I'm not worried about being converted nor am I anti-religion. I actually think that holding a CERT class for Suncrest is a great idea and I don't know how Lori, in her condescending tone, came to the conclusion that somehow I don't. As a matter of fact, with my profession, knowledge and education, I could probably teach the class myself. In any case, I hope you all understand what I'm saying here.
I apologize for my condescending tone in my previous post. I understand how you feel this could be inappropriate. However, it's frustrating to me because I see what goes on behind the scenes to help our community.
You state above "If it's MY community meeting with MY neighborhood news/events and MY issues - I do not want them to be held at the corner LDS church." The organizers of SunCrestResidents.org get that. I'm not sure how long you've been in SunCrest but anytime there has been a community meeting to discuss news/events/issues it has always been held in a neutral place. Many residents here have allowed meetings to take place in their homes, city hall and the library in Draper have been used and so has the village green when weather permits.
In my view, offering a class to help the community is bit different. You have graciously been invited to attend. Someone has graciously offered their time to teach, for free. No news/issues/events about the community are being discussed. My fear is that in the future, because of this type of discussion, the class just won't be offered. Until we get access to our clubhouse there isn't another venue here in SunCrest that can accommodate. I hope you understand where I'm coming from.
I think it is very hard for people in the predominant social group here in Utah to even understand why people like M and myself feel uncomfortable with community meetings being held in Mormon church buildings. (Even my wife, Lori, who posted above.)
There is a long history of inappropriate use of Mormon chapels in this state. It was not that long ago that polling places were located in Ward Houses here. For long time non-Mormon residents, the majority of community events here have revolved around the LDS church. In fact, the only time some Mormons even speak with their non-Mormon neighbors is to invite them to some "community function" which just happens to be sponsored by the church. M. most certainly has a valid reason to feel it is inappropriate and to not recognize that is myopic at best.
Holding the class at any religious venue is exclusionary. Members of the Mormon church should understand that it makes people who don't share their faith uncomfortable. I used to be Mormon and it would make me uncomfortable.
It has nothing to due with the effort that DeLaina or Barbara put into the planning of the class. They are exceptional people and we all appreciate what they do for our community. It isn't ingratitude on our part--it's a request to all Mormons to try to understand non-Mormons' feelings and respect them.
If the choice is to have some people drive an additional 20 minutes or exclude non-Mormons or make them feel uncomfortable, wouldn't you rather be inclusive?
And yes, as a non-Mormon woman in Suncrest, I feel kind of shunned and ignored, even pushed away. It's a very hard place to live and feel that community environment. Once some people realize that you're not LDS and are not interested, they want nothing to do with you.
13 comments:
I don't appreciate meetings, classes and all other things open to the public being held at the LDS church. I don't think it's appropriate. Some of us do not feel comfortable going to the LDS churches for events and so those of us who would go - don't. I think it would be better to have public events held in libraries, city halls, community centers etc.
M-I can certainly understand your concern, and if there were a community center available that is where the clas would have been held. From my understanding, many SunCrest residents have been asking for a CERT class in our community and the church was the only place available. They graciously agreed to alow the CERT classes to be taught there. If you are really interested in the CERT class, feel free to e-mail me at delainatonks@comcast.net and I can find some info on classes taught in other venues down in the valley.
The LDS church should not be considered a venue for these types of meetings. I don't see it going over well with LDS people if the classes and meetings were scheduled in a Catholic church, a Muslim masque or a Jewish temple. Just because there is an LDS church on every corner does not mean they should be venues for public meetings/classes/trainings/etc.
M-Again, I understand your concerns, and there are CERT classes available for you down in the valley. Nobody is trying to force you into an LDS church to attend a class on Emergency Prep. It's an available opportunity which you can take or leave. Many others were excited about having this class in SunCrest at the only available place large enough to accommodate the class. If you have a big basement and would be willing to host the class, let me know and we can get something on the schedule.
Many churches of every religion offer their buildings for community classes-I have attended events at Juan Diego, a Catholic church/high school for example.
But, let's reframe this discussion because it really has nothing to do with religion. It's about the convenience of taking a class around the corner instead of having to drive for 20 minutes to get to it.
M - In our vicinity, what do you think would be a better solution? Maybe we could hold it in one of our little parks in the snow and cold, or maybe we could pitch a big tent on one of the cul de sacs.
I'm not LDS either, but I appreciate the effort others have initiated to organize this class. I don't think I'm going to attract much attention walking into a church, and as DeLaina said above, no one is forcing me. You can either learn or not learn and if you are willing to drive further there are other classes available.
Many people in SunCrest (and not all are LDS) donate their time so that you and this community can be educated and informed. Please respect the fact that they have organized this event with emergency preparedness as the goal - not to convert you to Mormonism.
I'd like to speak to this issue, because I am the one who organized this CERT class. As Emergency Volunteer Coordinator for Draper City, I organize most of the CERT classes in the city. After scheduling classes in other parts of the city, I was happy to finally be able to offer CERT in my own community. I hope no one in Draper is "uncomfortable" with my organizing CERT classes because I happen to live in SunCrest! Originally, the class was supposed to be taught at the fire station. When that wasn't completed in time, we went to the only other possible venue. CERT classes teach a lot of hands-on skills, and require a large space. None of our attendees at last night's class seemed uncomfortable with the location, and (with the exception of a few personal friends who were there) I have NO IDEA what religions were represented. Incidentally, I took my training at Juan Diego Catholic High School and am grateful to them for so generously offering the opportunity and the space. If you contact me personally, I can steer you to other CERT classes offered throughout the valley, and work with you to find a more comfortable venue. Or, visit www.unifiedfire.org and check out the opportunities yourself. Thank you for expressing an interest in taking CERT; people who are so trained offer a profound service to their community.
I think all M is getting at is that the turn out for the CERT classes by non-LDS will be lower because of the location it is held. Just like it would be lower if it were held at the church of scincetolgy. People are just looking for a location that is Neutral.
The church is the only location in SunCrest large enough to accommodate the class.
The convenience factor was in answer to requests from many community members so they would not have to drive 20 minutes for a class.
However, for those who are uncomfortable, they have the option to go elsewhere as they always have had in the past.
All that has happened is that there is another option available to our community.
Thanks PINEALPS for understanding my point. The rest of you don't have to get your feathers all ruffled! I just wished to voice my opinion.
I appreciate there being CERT classes in other locations - I understand that perfectly. But what if these meetings are Suncrest specific? If it's MY community meeting with MY neighborhood news/events and MY issues - I do not want them to be held at the corner LDS church.
Forgive me if it sounds a little strange but consider this: If the only big/close-enough/perfect venue in the area was a local pub would some people feel uncomfortable using a bar as a meeting venue? Of course! What if we scheduled these classes on a Sunday? Would some people feel it inappropriate? Of course! Perhaps we should tell those who object that they can just join a different community meeting elsewhere if they don't like it.
In the same way, it's not fair for someone to tell me that while my neighborhood will hold a meeting where MY neighborhood issues will be discussed I'm welcome to go elsewhere.
On another hand, we are allowing these exercise classes, community meetings and so on to take place in the church. Does this mean all community events can take place in the church? What if the Suncrest Neighborhood Wine Tasting Club wants to hold their meeting/wine tastings at the LDS church because it's the only closest big venue around? No one's basement is big enough. I'm guessing that we wouldn't have a gracious invitation to do so.
The LDS church is not a fair and "neutral" location. It has nothing to do with Mormonism at all. I'm not worried about being converted nor am I anti-religion. I actually think that holding a CERT class for Suncrest is a great idea and I don't know how Lori, in her condescending tone, came to the conclusion that somehow I don't. As a matter of fact, with my profession, knowledge and education, I could probably teach the class myself. In any case, I hope you all understand what I'm saying here.
I apologize for my condescending tone in my previous post. I understand how you feel this could be inappropriate. However, it's frustrating to me because I see what goes on behind the scenes to help our community.
You state above "If it's MY community meeting with MY neighborhood news/events and MY issues - I do not want them to be held at the corner LDS church." The organizers of SunCrestResidents.org get that. I'm not sure how long you've been in SunCrest but anytime there has been a community meeting to discuss news/events/issues it has always been held in a neutral place. Many residents here have allowed meetings to take place in their homes, city hall and the library in Draper have been used and so has the village green when weather permits.
In my view, offering a class to help the community is bit different. You have graciously been invited to attend. Someone has graciously offered their time to teach, for free. No news/issues/events about the community are being discussed. My fear is that in the future, because of this type of discussion, the class just won't be offered. Until we get access to our clubhouse there isn't another venue here in SunCrest that can accommodate. I hope you understand where I'm coming from.
I think it is very hard for people in the predominant social group here in Utah to even understand why people like M and myself feel uncomfortable with community meetings being held in Mormon church buildings. (Even my wife, Lori, who posted above.)
There is a long history of inappropriate use of Mormon chapels in this state. It was not that long ago that polling places were located in Ward Houses here. For long time non-Mormon residents, the majority of community events here have revolved around the LDS church. In fact, the only time some Mormons even speak with their non-Mormon neighbors is to invite them to some "community function" which just happens to be sponsored by the church. M. most certainly has a valid reason to feel it is inappropriate and to not recognize that is myopic at best.
Holding the class at any religious venue is exclusionary. Members of the Mormon church should understand that it makes people who don't share their faith uncomfortable. I used to be Mormon and it would make me uncomfortable.
It has nothing to due with the effort that DeLaina or Barbara put into the planning of the class. They are exceptional people and we all appreciate what they do for our community. It isn't ingratitude on our part--it's a request to all Mormons to try to understand non-Mormons' feelings and respect them.
If the choice is to have some people drive an additional 20 minutes or exclude non-Mormons or make them feel uncomfortable, wouldn't you rather be inclusive?
I think 1trkpny expressed what I think very well.
And yes, as a non-Mormon woman in Suncrest, I feel kind of shunned and ignored, even pushed away. It's a very hard place to live and feel that community environment. Once some people realize that you're not LDS and are not interested, they want nothing to do with you.
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